How Much To Pay Your Portfolio Manager?

I know that Portfolio Managers do not always clearly explain the fees and charges payable by the client. SEBI has stepped in regarding clauses relating to fees and charges in the portfolio manager-client agreement.

The SEBI order is very lucid and comes with simple illustrations. But it’s sad that they have to regulate such basic stuff like being transparent on the fee that they charge.

Some excerpts:

The portfolio manager shall charge performance based fee only on increase in portfolio value in excess of the previously achieved high water mark.

Illustration: Consider that frequency of charging of performance fees is annual.

A client’s initial contribution is Rs.10,00,000, which then rises to Rs.12,00,000 in its first year; a performance fee/ profit sharing would be payable on the Rs.2,00,000 return. In the next year the portfolio value drops to Rs.11,00,000 hence no performance fee would be payable. If in the third year the Portfolio rises to Rs.13,00,000, a performance fee/profit sharing would be payable only on the Rs1,00,000 profit which is portfolio value in excess of the previously achieved high water mark of Rs.12,00,000, rather than on the full return during that year from Rs.11,00,000 to Rs.13,00,000.

Another lucid illustration of the fees and the returns are as under:

The assumptions for the illustration are as follows:
a. Size of sample portfolio: Rs. 10 lacs over
b. Period: 1 year
c. Hurdle Rate: 10% of amount invested
d. Brokerage/ DP charges/ transaction charges: Weighted Average of such charges (as a percentage of assets under management) levied in the past year/ in case of new portfolio managers indicative charges as a percentage of assets under management (e.g. 2%)
e. Upfront fee (e.g. 2%)
f. Management fee (e.g. 2%)
g. Performance fee (e.g. 20% of profits over hurdle rate)
h. The frequency of calculating all fees is annual.

The example cites a case when the portfolio has increased by 20%. The return for the client after accounting for the fees works out to 11.72%

Coming Soon! RupeeCamp "Financial Planning Workshop". "Join us"

Welcome back! Join me on this journey to improving our financial IQ and sharing what we know. Updates at RSS feed or Email. And spread the word please Thank You!

Incomplete Knowledge Is Dangerous; Ignorance is Bliss

The TOI has an article today where it says,

Out of the 300-odd diversified equity funds, only one has managed to beat key indices such as sensex and nifty. But four index-based funds have made it to the top 10 list, giving double-digit returns for the month.

In the past, I have been blinded by such reports and come to the conclusion that it’s better to buy index funds and ETFs rather than the actively managed mutual funds. Here are few data and pointers that say that it doesn’t really work like that in India.

  • The article has taken a view of a month’s performance and insinuates that index funds are good. It doesn’t talk about, say, three year performance.
  • The top index fund/etf on a 3 year return basis returned 10.66% as per this data
  • The top equity diversified mutual fund on a similar 3 yr return basis gave a 21.83%. (Source)
  • There are 74 mutual funds out of 248 (equity diversified funds) that have exceeded 10.66% as in point 2 above.
  • There is wide variation in the index funds returns despite them tracking the index.
  • The cost too is not as low as in the US.
  • The US experience is different.
  • In the US, John Bogle has preached the virtues of low-cost indexing since the 70s and his Vanguard Group Inc. finally unseated Fidelity as the largest US mutual-fund company by assets. They offer huge cost advantages and their market are supposed to be more market efficient.

So, would you invest in a actively managed mutual fund or an index? Or choose “Ignorance is bliss” :)

How many Stocks do you have in your Portfolio?

We should have between 15 & 20 stocks in our portfolio. The deciding factors are:
1. The need for diversification across sectors,
2. The number of Stocks you could reasonably monitor regularly

The above is what the experts keep advising. The truth in the above statement dawned on me only after I lost one big opportunity. And, I want to share this experience with you.

As I shared with you in my last post, I had, slowly but surely, progressed to some kind of ‘Stock Analysis’. As often happens, people close to you start seeking advice. I would avoid dispensing any advice; but if pestered, I would recommend some of the safe, long-term stocks; viz. Torrent Power, Adani Power, Cairn India, ABCL, etc. or Tata Motors to those with more risk appetite.

Sometime around Jan, 2010 I noticed that I was ‘Voluntarily’ dispensing advice. I was advising my friends (And, almost anybody I knew!!) to put-in money in Gujarat Fluorochemicals & Liberty Phosphate. I almost forced one of my subordinates to buy into GUJFLO.

No surprises. Both the shares did very well in the next six months. I guess I was so sure of my analysis that I wanted all the people close to me to take advantage. I am still not as matured in Stock Selection as to confidently say that I will strike a GUJFLO at regular intervals. But at that time, I had identified the opportunity & I was more than 100% sure.

However, the story is not over yet. Where was the impact on my portfolio? It was hardly there. It was then that it dawned on me that I was having far too many stocks in my portfolio & had arrogantly (Or, ignorantly?) ignored the advice of all the experts. While I had invested a reasonable sum (to my mind!) in absolute terms which was close to what I had decided for each Stock, in late 2008 when I had started investing. My Portfolio had run-up by then, and in terms of percentage I had only put in ~2% in GUJFLO (In which I was more confident!!); and only ~5% in LIBPHO. No wonder there was little impact on my Portfolio.

I recount the following advice of experts in regard to size of Portfolio:
1. Our exposure in any one share should be between 4 – 20% of our total Equity Exposure.
2. The Portfolio should not have more than 20 Stocks
3. One should have a core portfolio wherein the Stocks may be for keeps.

Despite the realisation of the above Truths, I am still far from the ideal Portfolio (I am having ~40 Stocks.) I am having some trouble trimming down to the recommended number. I have realised, why, and I am still working on resolving it. I will share this wisdom in my next blog.

Financial Planning Is Simple And Easy

Yesterday, I scared you with the assumptions that you need to make about Retirement Planning and how it ain’t easy. But the assumptions that I mention need not be 100% accurate and it’s more important to get started rather than focusing on the assumptions.

This post is about another perspective. It says that with a little common sense, planning your finances is really a breeze!

This is the story of Jagbir Singh, who has 7 years of experience in computing and has certifications like MySQL DBA, RHCE, CCNA, MCP, ACCP. He shares his thoughts, personal finance tips, investment approach etc. on his blog.

Jagbir Singh shared his financial decisions in the comments and wanted to know if he’s in the right direction.

I’d like to share his financial decisions:

1. Term Insurance splits in two policies: 1) 50 lacs from LIC. 2) 50 lacs from ICICI (iProtect).

2. Health insurance provided by employer, will purchase my own also soon.

3. Investments in Debt by EPF (automatically from salary deductions) and in PPF a/c.

4. Investments in Equity goes to MFs and in direct stocks in 40:60 ratio.

5. Investing MF part in 4 funds only through SIP: 1) HDFC Equity, 2) Sundaram Paribas Small and Mid Cap and ELSS funds 1) Canara Rebeco Tax Saving, 2) HDFC Tax Saver.

6. Purchasing stocks after deep analysis but still in basic stage (new comer). Will stop purchasing stocks directly if unable to beat index and MF returns over 1-2 years. Currently ahead of both in good margin.

Pretty impressive for a young software engineer, no?

Financial Planning is really very simple. You just need to be willing to make correct financial decisions and not be a personal finance expert. In fact, this is an area where you don’t need to be an expert to make correct decisions. Common sense and an open mind is what you need.

Nice to know that I have such intelligent readers! Thankyou, Jagbir for showing us that financial planning can be simple and easy!

Update: Like the 88% Solution! (As Guresh points out in the comments below)

Rediscovering The Stock Market

After my experience in Stock Investing in 1994, I went as far away from Stock Investing as you could imagine. But, do not think I was letting my money rest in my Savings Account. I was doing better. I was on to my own business!! Right through 1997 to 2004 I was into my manufacturing/exporting business. It was a bitter-sweet entrepreneurial experience with loads of learning.

The long & short of it was that I restarted my life from scratch in 2004. Back to having a regular job, I started reconstructing my life brick by brick. Sometime during late 2006 I got an introduction into a new business; that of recruiting skilled workers for foreign companies. I was only in a niche segment, but the business was good. Let me remind you that this business happened to me quite by accident. I cannot take much credit for having established it.

However, like all good things, it did not last long. The world was soon to go into the recession due to the sub-prime crisis in the US (early 2008). Unemployment rates in the developed economies shot-up & Governments started closing the doors on foreign workers. It put paid to my dreams of making it big. Nevertheless, after a long time I had some spare cash.

I do not quite remember how & when my Demat account got opened. It was definitely a non-event. I got a marketing call & I just had to evince interest. God-send, you could say. I vaguely remember that it happened sometime in May – June, 2008.

I have been an avid reader of the newspaper and I started reading the Business pages with more interest. I used to read it earlier as well, but it was more detached. The market was in correction mode & I started watching it closely. God-send, you would repeat. I agree. The timing for entry into the market could not be any better. You could not go wrong, even if you wanted to!! Roger, once again.

Nevertheless, you will have to give credit to me for having the guts, without having the requisite knowledge. I did not quite know what it was to be a ‘Contrarian’. I had also not been introduced to the concept of ‘Asset Allocation’. I would say that I knew the tools of Equity Analysis but they were in the realm of knowledge only. They were not yet a part of me. They had not transformed into my ‘wisdom’.

It was only after reading enough & watching the stock market till September, 2008 that I made my re-entry into the Stock Market.

I am encouraged to share the evolution of my Stock Investing Strategy in my next post.

Sumant Kant Sahai

My Stock Investing Journey: Introduction

Note: Please welcome my friend Sumant who wrote this post after much prodding. He’ll add a lot of value to readers and he has promised to share what he has learnt from his investments. This post is about the initial journey. And as he says, he was not dumb but just a part of the majority, I’m sure a lot of you would relate.


I was introduced to stock investing way back in 1994 or around. That seems ages back. It was, indeed, a different age. A world without an internet & a demat account indeed seems Stone Age.

Reading a book on Stock Investing was an easy part, as was memorising the Ratios for Stock Analysis. The difficult part was to get the data for Analysis. For an individual investor it was well neigh impossible.

I did exactly what most new investors do (Even today!). Follow the advice of the most approachable advisor. In any case I was neither equipped to judge the quality of the advisor, nor the quality of advice. And, promptly I bought a list of shares without knowing why I had bought them. All I knew was that there was money to be made at the Stock Exchange. Why I needed more money never crossed my mind & I did not know I should ask that question to myself. The concept of Personal Financial Goals was still more than a decade away from me. Those were rather carefree days of my early career, as it is for an overwhelming majority.

Come to think of it, the timing was not bad. Harshad bhai had come & gone & the market was still in consolidation phase. But I knew nothing about where I was putting my money & why. Add to that, the pain of  safe keeping of the share documents. And there was this vague fear of keeping account of the income from the shares. After all I will have to account for it in my Income Tax Statement. I could not understand the basic Income Tax Form to be submitted with the Form 16 (given by the Employer). This income from shares would complicate the things. I was scared. Please do no laugh. I actually had a vague fear of managing all that mumbo-jumbo. I was a very law abiding citizen & I was expecting to make big money at the Stock Exchange!

The problems did not end there. It was tough to keep track of the Share prices. Forget about Ratio Analysis & all that. That was only meant for serious Analysts, who would get published in the Dalal street, Financial Express, etc.

It did not take very long to get totally frustrated. As luck would have it, the shares I had bought were not doing well. If I had been lucky, my story might entirely be different. It is easy to see how important a part Providence plays in our life!!

I gave up. I just folded all the Share Certificates & locked them in safe-keeping (!). They were to remain there for almost a decade & more!!

Things may have been different if:

  1. I had made money in my first few transactions. But, again that would have been purely a matter of luck.
  2. I had read enough about Indirect & Direct Investing and chosen the Indirect Route to Investing & put in a small amount through the Direct Route to learn the tricks. That would probably have given me enough time in the market to learn the tricks & also given my shares enough time in the market to perform (& give a realistic return). It is difficult to accept & understand a realistic rate of return in Stock Market. One has to accept that the Stock Market, after all, is not a currency minting machine.
  3. I had a Financial Goal. Even as simple a goal as having a flat of my own in Mumbai (then, Bombay). That would have probably given me a sound reason to make more money & a target. (Believe me. Till then I only knew that surplus money was something you just kept in the bank!! Please do not conclude that I was dumb. I have a feeling, like always, I was a part of a majority.) I would possibly have been more realistic in my expectations. Would probably have been more patient.
  4. I were experimenting in 2005/06 & not 1993/94. I may possibly have read the blogs of many a stock investor & absorbed some wisdom. That is again providence & far fetched.

Anyway, I was off Stock Market & none too wiser. But, of course, I had all the reasons. My favourite argument was:

“While one person is selling the shares & feeling smart, the other buys & feels he is smarter. Both of them cannot be correct. I think the person who is better informed will be smarter. I reasoned that I will always be the loser because of my limited knowledge compared to those who are in the trade full time.”

Nothing wrong in the logic. Except that it got me nowhere. With logic you can justify any thing in the world. It is often just a cover for your lack of knowledge & wisdom or plain hard work & application.

Now I can say that, indeed in the long run the money in the Stock Exchange can come only from the Value created in the factories & offices. So almost everybody should be a winner if you are buying/selling scrips that create value, seen from a long term. In the short term, however, there are a host of factors that drive up or down a scrip. Most important of all, I think, is market sentiment.

The most important principle, therefore, is to be able to identify businesses that would perform well & stay invested till you think that the business will continue to do so. Of course, the valuations are important. But if you are a long term investor (You should be, if Stock Investing is not your primary source of income!) current valuation of a scrip is much less important than the quality of the business & its future prospects. And, there are simple mechanisms whereby you may even out the valuation of purchase. By investing through SIP, for example.

Let me get back to explaining my favourite argument against stock investing:

“If one person is buying and the other is selling, both may be winners. The first may be in need of cash, or he may just have made his targeted profit. The other may be buying it for the long term or he may still be seeing value in the stock. Indeed, ‘Time’ is a major factor in stock investing.”

Needless to say, today I am a firm believer in the power of Stock Investing. It is a sure way of making your savings work for you. It is a tool to achieve your Financial Goals. It is a tool whereby you can participate in the great Indian success story that is unfolding.

Sumant Kant Sahai

PS: Checkout my next post on this blog to find out how I re-discovered the Stock Market.

How to set up your financial freedom?

As we celebrate another Independence Day, let’s take a look at setting up your financial freedom. The following article was published in Jetlite’s in house magazine Flylite.


Freedom is being free of restraints and means having liberty from slavery, detention, or oppression. So, Financial Freedom would entail being free of money worries, to be free from working under oppression for money. Sounds interesting? Or does it look like too difficult thing to do? Does it look to be a utopian idea? The good news is that it can be achieved. Read on for the details.

It important to remember that freedom does not come for free and does not mean doing whatever we like. The fact is, Freedom is earned and freedom comes with responsibility.
Financial Freedom: Financial freedom comes when you’ve built a capital so that the interest earned from this capital takes care of your expenses when you decide to retire. We shall keep our discussions limited to managing our money. And managing money has three important components too.
1. Investing, to get more bang for your money.
2. Maximizing your income, to control the game of money.
3. Frugality, to save and not leak money.
So, personal finance is not just about investing. It’s also about optimizing your expenses as well as maximizing your income. In this article, we will focus on building the capital required for your financial freedom.

The situation: There are more than 300 life insurance schemes, numerous health insurance schemes, over 1000 Mutual Fund schemes, 2500+ stock scrips to choose from. Then there are 100+ deposit schemes with Banks, Corporates and the Government itself.
Wouldn’t it be a good idea to bring down the choice galore to a maximum of 20 products to choose from? Can’t this group of 20 products be the best in class and stands validated through a reasonable thought process?

Setting up your investments: The answer, to my mind, is yes! Read the following 7 points that gives you a set of 20 products to choose from for your investments.

Before we go on to investing our money, it’s a good idea to take a bit of cover. Let’s start with the emergency fund.

1. Emergency Fund: Keep an amount of three times your monthly expenses in your Bank in a Savings Account.

2. Insurance: Many of you who are just started having an income, are single wouldn’t really need insurance now. But some of you who have started a family need to get a cover. Trying to find how much insurance do you need from the internet will throw multiple calculations and options. Each one of them have their own logic. A simple thumb rule for me is to get insurance worth 60 times your monthly expenses. Not 60 times your gross monthly salary, mind you. Insurance is for taking cover, not profiting out of it.
You also need to get health insurance. A group health insurance privided by your company should be enough. If not, start with a mediclaim policy with one of the General Insurers.
To start investing, you need to first exhaust your tax planning options.

3. Tax Savers: Apart from the PF that might be deducted from your salary, getting a PPF account is a good idea. Plus you might go for equity linked tax saver Mutual Fund schemes. HDFC Tax Saver, SBI Magnum Taxgain, Sundaram BNP Paribas Tax Saver, Franklin India Tax shield and Sahara Tax Gain have given a return of 20%+ over the last 5 years.
From the money left after taking a cover and exhausting your tax planning options is available for investment.

4. New Pension Scheme (NPS): NPS is THE best & effective tool that covers capital protection and also provides growth for your retirement plans. With its lowest charges, it also is the cheapest way to get an exposure to the market. Despite being such a fabulous product, there’s not much sales to boast. This is because there’s no commission for an agent there. Infact getting a PRAN (Permanent Retirement Account Number) under NPS is not easy.

5. ETFs: This Pdf will tell you why ETFs are the best. Nifty Index ETFs which benchmark the Nifty that are available in India are NiftyBEES, KotakNifty, UTISunder, .QNifty

6. Equity Diversified/ Balanced Mutual Funds At a young age, you can take more risks and I will not ask you to invest in debt funds. A few Equity funds that I like are HDFC Top 200, Franklin India BlueChip, Sundaram Select and SBI Magnum Global fund. But to get a bit of diversification in your portfolio, I will recommend investing in a few balanced funds. Balanced funds have exposure to both equity and debt and their fund managers take a call on when to focus on equity or debt. HDFC Prudence, DSP Blackrock Balanced, Birla Sunlife 95, Tata Balanced are balanced funds which have done well. In fact some of them are at par with Equity Funds!

7. Gold ETF: Gold has been outperforming the equities for the last decade!. Looks like it’s on a dream run. For diversification purpose, investing 5-10% of your money in Gold ETF isn’t a bad idea. Gold ETF is seeing the highest turnover these days and there are a lot of players which are offering Gold ETF these days.
To set up your financial freedom, we have shortlisted a set of 20 odd products out of 5000+ financial products. Does it help you get started?

Advantages of the set up recommendations:

It tunes out the noise of the market place which is worse than the fish market.

It takes care of Diversification, Rupee Cost Averaging, Asset Allocation principles, Magic of Compounding and all principles and theory of investing.

It also gets you real bang for every Rupee at a very low cost.
Disadvantages: It’s boring and non-happening. More like a Cricket Test match when it’s the age of Twenty-20.
But the question is, do you need an audience for your finances? Or do you need to perform in front/for the benefit of others? Remember, it’s “personal” finance.

And once you set it up, you can forget about it and focus your life on more happening things! Yes, you have earned your financial freedom! And it is also the time when you become more responsible. And being responsible is easy. Just stick to the plan!

Yes, Freedom is earned and freedom comes with responsibility.